LINK onto restricted section

S

sypher

New Member
http://bb.gtiroc.com/viewtopic.php?t=40655

I am going to do this myself for my car, as I'm an auto' tech' with an interest in electronics,

To use this method for your car you will need
- Daughter board & 2 EPROMs
- EPROM programmer
- EPROM erraser if using UV EPROMs
- 2x 8 bit Emulators as ECU is word data ( approx' $ 180 each )
- USB Virtual comm port replicator if laptop doesn't have a comm port

without emulators you can't simply adjust any part of the file without pulling the PROMs, errasing them and re burning with what you " think" it needs

I haven't looked at any of the AFC things etc etc, but I assume these will be an easier and cheaper option than the list above, however i am doing the above just need to get emulators,,

Stu...
 
Y

youngsyp

Active Member
Keep us updated on this matey. I for one would be very interested to see how you get on.
This has always been my prefered method of doing things, since the Revo, AMD, K-Pro and other 'software' remappers have entered the scene. It just seems so much neater and affordable.

If you do get on well with it, and start selling the kits, I'll be the first in line to buy one :wink:
 
CruiseGTi-R

CruiseGTi-R

Member
Stu, I think the bikirom eliminates the need for a seperate emulator, erasor or an eprom burner.

I think his software also uses the consult software to data log and change the maps (tbh its all a bit bloody confusing).

You can upload new maps and change the maps on the go.

You seen this yeah? http://www.sr20tuning.com/theoryandpartsrequired.html

...and the new bikirom is even better... (see news towards the bottom of the page).
http://www.bikirom.com/index.html

and a few people using them on various forums like this one:
http://ecu2.forumwise.com/

I'm only interested in the biki one as you don't need to burn bloody eproms everytime you change the map.

It seems that its practically as versatile as a standalone (dare I say it)....
 
S

sypher

New Member
Yeah, I actually found a daughter board in an ecu so thats what I'm doing! the method I described is also possible for those wanting to mod a "MINES" ecu etc etc, basically anything with a daughter board!! and they said it couldn't be done !! Pull the PROM and read the DATA on the memory chip..

You just need to know the addresses for which things are located!!

http://www.romeditor.com/ Kindly wrote by Lawrence Mooney and freeware !!!!!

If anyone wants a MINES .bin PM me as "intelectual property" comes to mind and I'll email it too you

819187.5 RPM
480 KPH
and optomise maps

I won't be producing or selling components, baybe AJ4 could have some boards made up for the forum members, he's a rocket scientist you know !!! but will defo' help where possible

I'm learning this too at the moment

Stu...
 
D

Dan_GTiR

New Member
Some really good info on those sites.

Will be interesting to see if anyone gets some good and safe power gains from using one of these daughter boards.

Going to do some more research on this and might even get one myself, as it's definitely the cheapest option for a mappable ecu.



Dan. :)
 
CruiseGTi-R

CruiseGTi-R

Member
I'm very surprised more UK R's haven't gone this route.

I know there isn't the UK based support but its not like emanage is wildy known by tuners either.

I've gone and ordered a bikirom, fuck it, worth a shot.
 
M

micra_pete

Guest
Hi, if you want any help i've been tuning and altering the code of nissan ecu's for quiet a while, i'd be happy to help people out if needed.

when people say its a cheap option, to do it properly its not, for emulators, boards, widebands, traces to see where you are on the maps it will be £1000+

it can be done cheaply with just a board and a basic tune, smoothing out timing etc, which i did for a while, but as with everything you get what you pay for :)

as said to get started you need a board, which for you lads is easy to come by, i will recommend the plms board, is the blokes who make them are very good, you'll need some eproms, and a burner.

then you'll need some software liveedit is nice to get you started, plus it comes with some of the addresses you'll need for the maps / values
 
CruiseGTi-R

CruiseGTi-R

Member
Micra Pete, have I seen you on a few nissan ecu forums?

What you reckon to the bikirom, it scraps the need for emulators and eproms, burners etc (tell me if I'm wrong here though!) I just can't figure out if it gives you real time map tracing or not, I thiiinnk it does.

I'm looking at the 'plx devices' R500 wideband /egt/knock data logger to use alongside the rom editing stuff.

So I'm thinking of data logging with the R500 (6 output signals, so say AFM, BOOST, RPM, AFR (wideband), KNOCK, EGT) and using this against the Consult type data logging for timing (the R500 can't datalog timing).

Once I can build up the maps and determine problem areas I should be able to tweak the maps (liveedit/romedit etc) and run this through straight from the laptop again and re-log the data to check the effect.

The R500 also has an earphone output and amp'd signal for the knock sensor (bit like det cans), useful to avoid melting things rather than the always unpredictable knock count on pfc/avcr type set-ups.

What you reckon?
 
M

micra_pete

Guest
can i just point out, if you don't know much about setting up engine management, or don't know what is actually being changed, on the standard ecu can i advise you go for an e-manage or something simpler, a wrong value on the ecu itself will can have some very nasty effects
 
CruiseGTi-R

CruiseGTi-R

Member
youngsyp said:
CruiseGTi-R said:
I've gone and ordered a bikirom, oh no it, worth a shot.
Click to expand...
Ok if you don't mind me asking, exactly what did you order and how did you order it ?
Click to expand...
From here: Its the AU$299 package 'USB Mega Multiboard' and associated software.

To be honest I have no idea what I'm buying really :D

I haven't actually paid yet, I've put an order in alongside a string of questions about using it on a gtir etc etc.
 
CruiseGTi-R

CruiseGTi-R

Member
micra_pete said:
can i just point out, if you don't know much about setting up engine management, or don't know what is actually being changed, on the standard ecu can i advise you go for an e-manage or something simpler, a wrong value on the ecu itself will can have some very nasty effects
Click to expand...
I could be as much wrong tuning an emanage as tuning maps on the stock ecu.

It depends on what the software is like, from what I've seen it looks as familiar as maps on an emanage or pfc software.
 
M

micra_pete

Guest
CruiseGTi-R, i don't post much on ecu forums, not being a knob, but i dont really need to, i have a very good understanding of nissan ecu's and how they work

What you reckon to the bikirom, it scraps the need for emulators and eproms, burners etc (tell me if I'm wrong here though!) I just can't figure out if it gives you real time map tracing or not, I thiiinnk it does.
Click to expand...
The bikirom is a nice unit, its a board and consult unit in one, however is doesn't scrap the need for an emulator, what it scraps is the need for a burner, it uploads the maps over a usb cable, however you can't tune real time with it, he does support an aftermarket emulator, the MultiRom, which i think is about £800

In regard to the map tracing, im not sure how he does it, he either traces through consult using known formulas found on forums to calculate tp, none are 100% correct though, some are way off, and they change with different ecu's, or he knows the real time tp value as stored on the ecu, but you can't monitor that whilst using consult without changes to the code, so again, i wouldn't be too sure about it

I'm looking at the 'plx devices' R500 wideband /egt/knock data logger to use alongside the rom editing stuff.

So I'm thinking of data logging with the R500 (6 output signals, so say AFM, BOOST, RPM, AFR (wideband), KNOCK, EGT) and using this against the Consult type data logging for timing (the R500 can't datalog timing).
Click to expand...
yep, however consult will monitor AFM, and RPM for you, as i say, be careful though, i've known people seriously mess it up, hence probably why very little tuners over here support it, and believe me you can mess up more altering the ecu code directly than with an e-manage, an e-manage is much more user friendly
 
CruiseGTi-R

CruiseGTi-R

Member
micra_pete said:
CruiseGTi-R, i don't post much on ecu forums, not being a fool, but i dont really need to, i have a very good understanding of nissan ecu's and how they work

What you reckon to the bikirom, it scraps the need for emulators and eproms, burners etc (tell me if I'm wrong here though!) I just can't figure out if it gives you real time map tracing or not, I thiiinnk it does.
Click to expand...
The bikirom is a nice unit, its a board and consult unit in one, however is doesn't scrap the need for an emulator, what it scraps is the need for a burner, it uploads the maps over a usb cable, however you can't tune real time with it, he does support an aftermarket emulator, the MultiRom, which i think is about £800

In regard to the map tracing, im not sure how he does it, he either traces through consult using known formulas found on forums to calculate tp, none are 100% correct though, some are way off, and they change with different ecu's, or he knows the real time tp value as stored on the ecu, but you can't monitor that whilst using consult without changes to the code, so again, i wouldn't be too sure about it

I'm looking at the 'plx devices' R500 wideband /egt/knock data logger to use alongside the rom editing stuff.

So I'm thinking of data logging with the R500 (6 output signals, so say AFM, BOOST, RPM, AFR (wideband), KNOCK, EGT) and using this against the Consult type data logging for timing (the R500 can't datalog timing).
Click to expand...
yep, however consult will monitor AFM, and RPM for you, as i say, be careful though, i've known people seriously mess it up, hence probably why very little tuners over here support it, and believe me you can mess up more altering the ecu code directly than with an e-manage, an e-manage is much more user friendly
Click to expand...

I wish you would post more on forums more, helps us newbies :wink:

I see what you're saying about the emulator, but he does appear to claim map tracing, so I'm not sure why you'd need the emulator at all.

The way I've understood it is that his board downloads the map changes made after a logged run. It isn't on the fly changing, but its not like burning a full new eprom and faffing around changing the chip everytime, I think this was always the hassle with previous daughterboards. Now its just laptop to board and probably a quick download time until you can run the map again.

I agree on TP scaling. Working out TP, the milliseconds for it, inj duty cycle etc and getting the board/software to return the right voltages is still a bit beyond me. The TP does seem purely mathematical though, and knowing MAF voltage (R500 and consult data) against RPM you can calculate TP and determine where you are on the map (even if you don't get map tracing)

They all need working out very bloody carefully before you do any fiddling. But there seems to be a wealth of knowledge on these and I've seem full .bin files, voltage run downs of certain output, TP values, volunteered full maps and so on on a few forums so I'm becoming more confident in it.

I think I'm just bloody minded to try something new. You uk based? Would you take a look if I get one in and help set it up?

The board is about £130. The R500 (which includes EGT sensor, wideband sensor and full harness and display screen etc etc) is around £350, but frankly you need a R500 or at the very least a wideband logger to tune any ecu.
 
M

micra_pete

Guest
i use an emulator for real time mapping, ie, making changes live as the car is running, the bikirom is a stop, upload, start mapping, it take the need to remove eproms away, depends what you want i certainly want changes to happen real time

the ecu will stream out through consult a bunch "registers" which are the values used for the ecu, rpm, maf, temp etc, it is theoretically possible to work out a rough tp from these, however what the problem is most people use these as bible, but its not correct, the TP calculated varies on many things, im pretty good with the code on the later 16bit ecus and the formula for tp is different depending on ecu, also sometimes the fuel / timing maps aren't even accessed, do you see the problem with calculating it.

what is a better solution is to find where the ecu stores its own calculated value, and monitor that, or use a hardware trace.

yes im uk based, and yes i would be happy to have a look at your car for you
 
CruiseGTi-R

CruiseGTi-R

Member
TP sounds tricky, I'm glad you know your stuff.

I'll get one in if his response to questions is good and give you a shout me thinks :wink: .

Have a look at the downloads area of his site http://www.bikirom.com/index.html (link at bottom), gives a feel for the user friendlyness and a screen shot of his software. Would value your opinion.

I suppose the only sticking point in all of this is the emulator. I think his daughterboard uses two eprroms, so I can only assume it needs two emulators, how do you get round this?

Do you reckon you can sucessfully tune without one, might take longer but it is possible right? What else does it do apart from streaming the map live?
 
M

micra_pete

Guest
yes, if its two eproms you either need two 8bit emulators and some software to support them, or a multirom, it can be done without an emulator, but its not the best solution.

i have a copy of lucas (biki) software, its pretty nice, i like how consult is intergrated.
 
CruiseGTi-R

CruiseGTi-R

Member
yeah, looks like a good tuning platform doesn't it.

I'm just stuck on the emulator thing. Is a shame not to get one. Can get pocket romulators quite cheap, but god knows on compatibility.

I suppose a couple trips to a tuner/rolling road and you've paid for an emulator though...
 
S

sypher

New Member
Hey micra_pete what map trace do you use? my choice is going daughter board, emulators and WB, will play using consult rpm / load axis but actually prefer to see which cell is being read.

Stu..
 
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