Safc 2 Fueling Adjustments

mattytappy

mattytappy

New Member
Took the old banger for a small run out to see what afrs i was getting at 1.2 bar and its 12.7 at WOT on full boost, but on the way up to full boost through the mid range my afr gauge is showing mid 13s...is this normal fueling levels for mid range.....or should it be adjusted to get it slightly lower into the mid 12s as it is on full boost.

Also if the fueling is slightly lean mid range can anyone help tell me what ne points need adjusting on the safc fueling map?


Regards

mattytappy:)
 
mattytappy

mattytappy

New Member
I love livin on the edge:flame:


I think im right in saying mid 12s is lean max power is it not....so you think i should be trying to hit the mid 11s then?

Other than upping the fuel pressure how else can this be achieved?
 
M

MarkTurbo

Well-Known Member
Upping the fuel pressure is just a bodge for not having big enough injectors ;-) You should aim for high 11's or very low 12 afr's.
 
campbellju

campbellju

Moderators
Staff member
Handy Guidelines

Idle 14.5 to 15.1
Light throttle 14 to 15
Cruise 14 to 15
Part throttle 13 to 14.5
Torque 12.5 to 13.5
Power 12 to 12.5


.....though Marks answer was funnier. If 12.7 is a brief peak at WOT then your average will be lower and it will probably be fine. If its an average then its a bit high.

For power, 12.5 will be fine for 1.2Bar T28, 12 is for silly people like me. This is not an exact science and the only way to check what works best is stick your car on a dyno.
 
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mattytappy

mattytappy

New Member
Thanks guys.

I must admit it could be slightly lower but trying to keep your eye on the aem gauge+ the boost gauge and on the road ahead is not the most saftest of enviroments to be checking the afrs but it ceryainly is cheaper than alot of rolling road time.

lean cruise is good and around 14.5 so thats ok. one thing tha did worry me slightly was a little puff of white smoke in between gear changes....and the odd pop....lol

From what i have managed to find and read up on, my mid reange afr readings seem to be pretty normal but i would like to try and get them to drop straight down to the mid 12s rather than taking a second or two to do so.

I have to hand a set of evo 544 injectors that i got of off ashills a while ago and a z32 to fit so do you guys think that the standard fuel pressure on these size injectors will aid in getting the afrs into the mid 12s better. or will the fuel pressure still need to be raised a little....just to add i had already fitted the walbro a long while ago so pump pressure should help get the afrs down,+ i have a front mount intercooler so intake temps should be ok.

What i really need to know is once ive fitted the injectors and z32, what functions in the safc2 or areas in the settings need to be re-corrected to get the most out of the bigger injectors and maf...i know that you change the in and out values of the air meter to 2in 5 out but correcting any of the other setting like the ne points is a bit bewildering to be honest...can anyone help explain more as to how the safc works and what setting i should be changing when fitting bigger injectors?

Cheers guys and gals

Kind regards

mattytappy
 
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campbellju

campbellju

Moderators
Staff member
If you're not maxing out your current injectors, don't go any bigger. Swap AFM by all means but no need for bigger injectors
 
mattytappy

mattytappy

New Member
Cheers jim

Do you know how to and what needs to be adjusted with the safc2 settings to get the fueling spot on mid range or to be even safer to make it a small amount richer through out the rev range so i can run 1.3 bar.

Just out of interest why not fit the bigger injectors yet.....?

I was of the understanding that the standard injectors are right at there limit at the boost level and fuel pressure and i dont want to up the fuel pressure to much until i have replaced all the old fuel line with decent new ones.

Would the evo injectors not be a good idear rather than running the stock one as nearly 100% duty at the standard fuel pressure?

Kind regards

mattytappy
 
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P

pulsarboby

Guest
i would be more worried about your ignition matty!
at 1.2 im assuming your still running the mines unit?
if so that is at its peak ignition performance, push any harder and you could be asking for trouble as you will be detting due to no accurate advance / retard of that unit.
think its time you binned the safc and mines and maybe went for something else more mappable for ignition too.

this is just my opinion so someone please correct me if im wrong here, but i think not!
 
Fusion Ed

Fusion Ed

Active Member
He could just pull a few degrees out of the distributor. Say use a base of 18 deg rather than 20. It would be fine.
 
mattytappy

mattytappy

New Member
pulsarboby said:
i would be more worried about your ignition matty!
at 1.2 im assuming your still running the mines unit?
if so that is at its peak ignition performance, push any harder and you could be asking for trouble as you will be detting due to no accurate advance / retard of that unit.
think its time you binned the safc and mines and maybe went for something else more mappable for ignition too.

this is just my opinion so someone please correct me if im wrong here, but i think not!
Click to expand...
I would love to be able to bob but the bank balance just isnt up to it at the mo....i keep swapping in between the mines and the standard ecu as the mines tends to hunt for idle revs and idlse high, sometimes around 1400 rpm but when driving is alot more tourqe...but on the other hand the standard ecu idles fine at around 950 rpm but the afrs are getting a bit on the lean sidewhen boosting past 1.1

as of yet i havent seen what the afrs are on the mines.....i was going to fit the z32 as i think this may have somthing to do with why its hunting for idle revs....not massively but enough to piss me off.

Edd thanks for the advice.....i may have a go at setting the timing back a few degrees and the standard ecu and see what that does.

What sections of the safc have to be altered to fit bigger injectors with the z32, ie do you have to set the ne points as well as the hi/lo throttle settings to try and get the injectors to work?

At the moment all im concerned with is trying to get the afrs into the safer part of the territory at these boost levels,
my school of though was that if i fit bigger jets it will get more fuel so that in turn would bring down the afrs?

Im getting slightly more comfortable with searching my way around on the settings of the safc....but i still need some advice and guidence?

Regards

mattytappy
 
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mattytappy

mattytappy

New Member
Just a quick update here....ive now fitted the z32...with the help of a phone call to edd....and he politley told me that i had wired it up incorrectly...so firstly thanks for that edd..;-)

My issue is now ive fitted some evo 510cc injectors.

Its seems to be strange as the car idles fine although the afrs are now down to high 12s and low 13s which is showing that the injectors have definatly done what i wanted and made the car richer.....but my problem is this.....at 1.2 bar when on boost at wot the afrs go straight up into over lean of mid 14s and low 15s.....and i get a little stall in the performance before the boost really gets going and it definatly seems underpowered compared to the standard injectors....?????

Can any one help out and maybe point out what could be wrong here or what i have possibly done to affect it so much..:?

Kind regards

mattytappy
 
Fusion Ed

Fusion Ed

Active Member
at high idle 3000rpm you want it to be showing 14.7 ish afr. if its too lean here then youll get issues. Its also quite likely that the ECU load scaling will now be out causing further issues, but as a rule it will cause an advance in ignition, not a retard. DO NOT RUN on high 14/15 on boost you will very quickly begin cause excessive cylinder temperatures, and potential piston damage, as well as more likely to knock etc..
 
mattytappy

mattytappy

New Member
Jim....yes i have told the safc its now running a z32....i changed the input output values to 2in 5out as it says in the manual.... and it idles fine and runs well with it.


Edd....its idling afrs are alot richer than when it had the standard injectors in...and they are at about 12.5 rather tahn with the standards back in, the afrs are around as you say mid 14s.

What is puzzling is why the afrs shoot up into mid 15s when coming on boost:shock: ??

Even with slightly bigger 510 injectors.:roll: .

Am i right in saying i could run these evo 510s with out re-altering the settings or do they still require adjustment with my safc?

Do you think it could be the maf playing up...as i get a slight stall, or a bit of a hickup before it starts coming on boost which wasnt there before?

Your help is appreciated lads

kind regards

Mattytappy
 
Fusion Ed

Fusion Ed

Active Member
You need to tune it. You cannot just put on injectors and maf and do a correction and expect it all to work right!
 
mattytappy

mattytappy

New Member
Well i have just changed the maf back over to a standard one and left in the 510 evo injectors and its now as pulling on boost with no hesitation and really rich afrs into the early 10s( to be expected with the 510s in) even at 1.3 bar its rich.......so the z32 is at fault.

After being pissed that i had paid half sensible money for it:evil: , i decided to cut out the aluiminium gauze and have a look at the sensor its self:shock: and it looks as if its had a load of cow dung slung at it:doh: .




the picture dont actually do the dirt any justice but belive me it was caked on there a good couple of mil thick,
will this affect the maf enough to make it hesitate on delivering the right signals when coming on boost?

Also i have noticed in the past mafs with the plastic cover over the circuit board that have been removed and the cover re stuck down with mastic....why is this?? has the maf been re-furb?



So bar cleaning it with half a can of carburetor cleaner what else can be done to get it back in working order.

Can these be refurb????
 
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Fusion Ed

Fusion Ed

Active Member
Ill get a good pic of what it should look like tomorrow. But carb cleaner should help if need be. It is very dusty that's for sure..
 
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