500+ bhp

[Smo]

Looks like I'm planning on keeping my R for some time now, and for that purpose I am having her completely resprayed with new rear arches and rust treatment to keep the bodywork all good for (fingers crossed) another 15 years or so.

My next point would be power. For those of you that are familiar with my car you'll know what I mean - for those that don't, a spec list can be seen below;

- Tomei SR22 Full-Counter Crank
- Tomei SR22 Forged Piston Kit
- Tomei Forged H-Beam Conrods
- Tomei SR20 Procam (272)
- Tomei SR20 Cam Gear
- Tomei SR20 Pulleys
- Tomei Titanium Top Rings
- Tomei SR20 Double Valve Springs
- Tomei Retainers
- Tomei Lifters
- Tomei Spring Sheets
- Tomei SR20 Solid Pivots
- Tomei SR20 Shims
- Tomei SR20 Valve Guides
- Tomei Head Studs
- Tomei Main Studs
- Tomei Rod Studs
- Tomei Rocker Stopper Kit
- RB26 ACL Big End Bearings
- RB26 ACL Main Bearings
- RB26 ACL Thrust Bearings
- Uprated Flywheel
- Uprated Flywheel Bolts
- Cometic Headgasket
- Head Port
- Head Polish
- Head Skim
- Head Gasflowed
- Inlet Port
- Inlet Polish
- Exhaust Manifold Port
- Exhaust Manifold Polish
- 1mm Oversize Inlet Valves
- 1mm Oversize Exhaust Valves
- 3-Way Cut Valve Seats
- Acid Dip Block
- Deck Block
- Polish & Re-Hone Bores
- Blueprint Bottom End
- Balance Bottom End
- New Gearbox
- Uprated Selector Fork
- Complete Gasket Set
- New Water Pump
- New Oil Pump
- New Timing Chain
- Uprated Pressure Plate
- AP Twin-Paddle Clutch
- B&M Short Shifter
- 4x NGK Iridium BCR8ES Plugs
- 550cc Injectors
- Walbro 255 Fuel Pump
- Garrett GT28RS Turbo
- Forge Front-Mounted Intercooler
- Bailey Oil-Catch Can
- Pro-Alloy Radiator
- Turbosmart BOV (Recirc Disconnected)
- Z32 AFM
- APEX'i Power Intake Filter
- Mongoose Turbo-Back Exhaust (5" Tail)
- 3" Decat

Now I would presume that the engine is capable of whatever horsepower I want to throw at it? However I'm no expert so a professional opinion would be ideal.

I have no idea what sort of power I am aiming for, but considering she's already at 395bhp I guess my benchmark would be over 500bhp.

My questions are;

- Would sort of fuel system would I need? The Walbro Pump is probably nearing it's limits as it is. An inline and swirl pot?

- What ignition system should I use? And are there any recommended individual products on the market? MSD perhaps?

- Will my standard (Ported & Polished) manifold be able to flow over 500bhp? If not, can anyone recommend a decent one, and would I need an external wastegate?

- Which turbo? I would imagine a 3076r would do the trick and shouldn't be too laggy thanks to the 2.2 displacement.

- Gearbox? We all know that these are the weakpoints on the R. However my current (rebuilt) standard box has done 19,000 miles at 400bhp and still feels as new. Could it possibly survive that power? Considering I never, ever launch my car or snap at the gears. I'm guessing at the very least Quaife internals?

- Driveshafts/Propshaft - can these survive or would these need uprating also?

I'm aware that there is a HUGE amount of work involved between 400 and 500bhp. In the circumstances I may never achieve it, the car is phenomenal as it is, but in an ideal world I would love to see what she's capable of.

Could it possibly be viable? Or is the cost involved too astronomical? Just what exactly do you have to do for that magical number?

 

[DRC]

Well this should get some interesting input.
Are you sure you really want to invest in your R , with the amount of money involved funding that sort of project you could help get "us" out of this recession.
I hope after your done and satisfied ( which i personally find is never with these cars as there is always something ) with this car you pass it down the family Tree and treat it as an Air loom.
In answer to your question I have little know-how above 400bhp set up. The turbo you are after would suit the engine well. Also I can't see you needing to get your intake system fabricated.
All joking aside thought I guess you could be looking at one of the highest powered R's in the country.
Good luck

 

[Trondelond]

I have absolutely nothing to contribute, I just want to compliment that spec!

 

[Empty Pockets]

I thought that cam gears and pulleys were the same thing, nice spec though mate, although why they used a cometic gasket on what looks like a complete tomei engine is beneath me ? From what i've read you will be maxing a 3076 out at around 525 fwbhp @ 2bar'ish , I've gone 3582r hoping that being a 2.2 it might spool quicker, will be using a protech twinscroll manifold for the same reason but am still expecting 5k spool. Best prepare yourself for the costs mate, turbo, manifold and wastegates has just cost me 3k and there's loads left to do. Hope it all goes well for you mate.

 

[ChrisS]

Theres probably not as much to do on it as you think to get to 500+. Injectors, im suprised you not already maxed out on 550's, change to 1000's. Quaife box. You could just go 3076r and get 500bhp but why not consider going 35/40. Obviously new manifold will be needed and external gate. Protech log topmount? You'll need to make some changes for intercooler piping and exhaust, but you needthe exhaust swopping to a proper 3 inch elbow and system anyway. You'll probably also need to ditch the z32 and go for a ecu system that can support a MAP sensor instead of MAF. Haltec probably most cost effective.

 

[Makaveli_se7en]

Internally gated GT3076's are available from ATP Turbos, although they are on a T3 flange. If you wanted to do it on the cheap you could get an adaptor from T28 to T3 flange and use the existing manifold. It would be the optimal setup (possible a bit restrictive to the turbine) but by far the cheapest. I've also heard that you can get above 500bhp on the Z32 MAF but it involves fudging the map a bit at the top end.

 

[Empty Pockets]

I've got a protech topmount log manifold knocking about if thats the route you take, t3 turbo and 44mm wastegate flanged. Give me a shout if you need it.

 

[Fast Guy]

What inlet and exhaust manifolds are you using?

Why not try something different and go twin scroll GT35R. It's more of a 600bhp+ turbo than 500bhp+ The Evo boys seem to get good results on 2.3L with that turbo.

500+ or 600+ the gearbox will probably be the weak link tho.

 

[Empty Pockets]

What inlet and exhaust manifolds are you using?

Why not try something different and go twin scroll GT35R. It's more of a 600bhp+ turbo than 500bhp+ The Evo boys seem to get good results on 2.3L with that turbo.

500+ or 600+ the gearbox will probably be the weak link tho.

already doing this, hope to be finished by february, just need injectors, management and a few odds and sods.

 

[campbellju]

I've also heard that you can get above 500bhp on the Z32 MAF but it involves fudging the map a bit at the top end.

513hp without any fudging needed. With fudging could go a little higher. I expect between 513hp and 550hp you would hit a practical limit but I've not gone high enough to find it yet.

@Smo, ask yourself why 500hp? apart from drag racing, a well setup 3071 at 450hp would be far more usable on the street.

A 2.2 with a 3071 I've been in worked well with good pickup and power. As others have suggested, get your gearbox and injectors first as over 400hp you will need both. After you've spent £2500 getting that done, you can then decide what next.

-Incidentally, that 2.2 car had all sorts of problems with cometic head gaskets and in the end organised a special one from cosworth. Put that on your list of jobs to check past 400hp.

 

[Smo]

Well this should get some interesting input.
Are you sure you really want to invest in your R , with the amount of money involved funding that sort of project you could help get "us" out of this recession.
I hope after your done and satisfied ( which i personally find is never with these cars as there is always something ) with this car you pass it down the family Tree and treat it as an Air loom.
In answer to your question I have little know-how above 400bhp set up. The turbo you are after would suit the engine well. Also I can't see you needing to get your intake system fabricated.
All joking aside thought I guess you could be looking at one of the highest powered R's in the country.
Good luck

In all honesty - no, I'm not entirely sure. The car is just fine as it is, however the engine is capable of far more and for that reason I am interested in what exactly it would take to reach the next level. I'm aware huge cost may be involved, but on the other hand - perhaps not. That's all I want to know!

I have absolutely nothing to contribute, I just want to compliment that spec!

Cheers Trond :-D

I thought that cam gears and pulleys were the same thing, nice spec though mate, although why they used a cometic gasket on what looks like a complete tomei engine is beneath me ? From what i've read you will be maxing a 3076 out at around 525 fwbhp @ 2bar'ish , I've gone 3582r hoping that being a 2.2 it might spool quicker, will be using a protech twinscroll manifold for the same reason but am still expecting 5k spool. Best prepare yourself for the costs mate, turbo, manifold and wastegates has just cost me 3k and there's loads left to do. Hope it all goes well for you mate.

I'm not entirely sure myself mate - perhaps the previous one failed, although a little unlikely. I know that the engine has been reshimmed a couple of times so this could well be the cause should the head have been removed.

Are you also running the Tomei stroker? 5k spool is simply not worth it as far as I am concerned - where I live B roads are dominant and the setup on the car now is ideal. It could well be that 500bhp with a decent spool is unachievable in the circumstances that I am after, and with that in mind it may not ever happen.

Theres probably not as much to do on it as you think to get to 500+. Injectors, im suprised you not already maxed out on 550's, change to 1000's. Quaife box. You could just go 3076r and get 500bhp but why not consider going 35/40. Obviously new manifold will be needed and external gate. Protech log topmount? You'll need to make some changes for intercooler piping and exhaust, but you needthe exhaust swopping to a proper 3 inch elbow and system anyway. You'll probably also need to ditch the z32 and go for a ecu system that can support a MAP sensor instead of MAF. Haltec probably most cost effective.

1000cc injectors I was certain I would need so that hasn't been a huge surprise. The gearbox is an odd one for me - with the Pulsar being a second car I'm not fussed about leaving the box until last and seeing how it fares. As said before it's been running 400bhp (standard rebuilt) for 19,000 miles and is still as new, however I am aware the considerable difference between 400bhp and 500bhp.

Is my Power FC Pro unable to support MAP?

Internally gated GT3076's are available from ATP Turbos, although they are on a T3 flange. If you wanted to do it on the cheap you could get an adaptor from T28 to T3 flange and use the existing manifold. It would be the optimal setup (possible a bit restrictive to the turbine) but by far the cheapest. I've also heard that you can get above 500bhp on the Z32 MAF but it involves fudging the map a bit at the top end.

So you would recommend an internal gate rather than external? Why is this?

As for the map, I would quite possibly turn to either Steve at FC Tuning or Micra Ed at Fusion Motorsport as I believe them to be very competent at what they do, as such they have been highly recommended.

I've got a protech topmount log manifold knocking about if thats the route you take, t3 turbo and 44mm wastegate flanged. Give me a shout if you need it.

I'll bear that in mind mate, thanks

What inlet and exhaust manifolds are you using?

Why not try something different and go twin scroll GT35R. It's more of a 600bhp+ turbo than 500bhp+ The Evo boys seem to get good results on 2.3L with that turbo.

500+ or 600+ the gearbox will probably be the weak link tho.

Currently both my inlet and exhaust manifolds are ported and polished standard items.

My only issue with the GT35R is spool time - bearing in mind my car is only 2.2 would leave me expecting a spool far later in the rev range than I would like.

513hp without any fudging needed. With fudging could go a little higher. I expect between 513hp and 550hp you would hit a practical limit but I've not gone high enough to find it yet.

@Smo, ask yourself why 500hp? apart from drag racing, a well setup 3071 at 450hp would be far more usable on the street.

A 2.2 with a 3071 I've been in worked well with good pickup and power. As others have suggested, get your gearbox and injectors first as over 400hp you will need both. After you've spent £2500 getting that done, you can then decide what next.

-Incidentally, that 2.2 car had all sorts of problems with cometic head gaskets and in the end organised a special one from cosworth. Put that on your list of jobs to check past 400hp.

The only reason the 500bhp figure came to mind was just the next logical benchmark (in my mind) over 400bhp. You are totally right about a 3071r at 450bhp and this could very well be what I will do. I love my car the way it is currently, a superb point-to-point instant pick up and low down spool makes for a very nice drive.

The gearbox does concern me - however I think I would leave it as standard until something went wrong, perhaps as just a learning curve. I have read all sorts on various forums about the R boxes, mostly being that the casing is the weak point and shock loading is what does the damage. Perhaps this could be cured with extra bracing? Either way, I never launch my cars and am always easy on the boxes just in case. I'm very aware that failure would be an unavoidable eventuality so will absolutely need addressing.

As for the headgasket - if you believe it to be a problem I will look into getting it changed.

Thanks for the input everyone - your insight is invaluable!

 

[kirko]

dude you have the spec in the engine 8)all you neeed is a 3076 turbo and manifold and injectors (keep it basic i.e jay gants old car)its as easy as that what happens to gearboxes blah blah blah will happen if you abuse it mine is going strong at 430bhp

why everyone thinks its like the holy grail i dont know,
ive never heard such negativity in a club no wonder gtir's have such a bad rep:twisted:

 

[Makaveli_se7en]

An internal wastegate reduces the efficiency of the turbine stage slightly and is deffinately not the ultimate set up. The point I was trying to make is that it needn't cost the earth to get you to the figure you want.

 

[warringtonjack]

Smo

I have some Sard 1000s, a 3076R and an XSPower wastegate just sat at home waiting for me to get off my ass and do something with em. Let me know if you might be interested in em.

Cheers

 

[darkyGTI-R]

Do you like Tomei then smo lol

 

[Rishi]

Fuel System
- You'll want an Aeromotive setup completed with pump, filter, swirl pot, FPR and some multi holed 1000cc injectors. You will also want the Aeromotive FPR because aparently the likes of the SARD doesn't cope well with the Aeromotive pumps.

- You could also try what i've seen the Supra guys do and tie wrap another Walbro 255L to your existing one and run them both together. I believe even the EVO guys have a kit made up like this?


Exhaust
- Manifold to allow for a twin scroll and ext wastegate. You will then need the ext wastegate and a nice twin scroll GT35 of some sort. Well that would be my choice anyway.


ECU
- You'll want a more capable ECU which will allow you to use a MAP sensor. i don't see why you should struggle maxing out a Z32 when there is a far more suitable option available.


Drivetrain
- Gearbox. Some will say the standard one is fine if you're carefull. Why would you want to potter around being carefull with 500bhp.. If you want to drive Miss Daisy around then you're in the wrong car. I stripped all of 5th gear on my standard box years back.. That was actually being carefull.. It lasted a whole day after a boost/map session.. Look into a Quaife or PPG box..


Cooling
- I see you have a larger Rad but there is no mention of an Oil cooler. I would get one too if you don't already have one..

 

[ChrisS]

http://www.nissangtir.co.uk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=30060

Have a look here. Everything you need.

 

[Smo]

Right guys - it's been a while since the idea of pushing for more power has crept into my mind and I have decided to go ahead with it. Firstly I'd like to thank everyone for sharing their knowlege and the input I have received from various members has been invaluable. Over the past two months as you may be aware I have been sourcing and collecting the parts necessary for my 500bhp build. With this car I hope to show how simply (not easily) a big power road car can be achieved.

I have the following parts, some already fitted (obviously all will be sorted before the map);

- RC 1000cc Injectors
- Garrett GT3076R-EWG Turbo
- Tial 44mm External Wastegate
- JapSpeed Phase 2 Manifold with Reinforced Welds & Braces
- MSD 6a Ignition Box and SS Blaster Coil
- Bosch 044 Inline Pump

I'm considering a swirl pot also but is this necessary? Am I able to simply run the Bosch 044 inline being fed by the Walbro on the standard fuel lines?

 

[Fast Guy]

I'd be tempted to run a swirl pot as if the walbro runs out of fuel momentarily, I assume the bosch won't be far behind.

 

[vss irvine]

i would run an external swirl pot aswell, something like this

http://www.rhdjapan.com/jdm-low/ATTAIN-Compact-Fuel-Collector-Tank-650CC-20825

then you dont have aswirl pot inside, as no matter what you do, it WILL stink.

heres a cheaper alternative

http://www2.obp.uk.net/catalog/prod...d=716&osCsid=058df5fad9ed7eeda154f80cde4d4df8

ill be running one of the attain collectors in our track car.