Titan Coilovers - Custom made in Malaysia

[BabyGodzillaGTi-R]

It's been awhile since i've posted anything here.
Just something to share:

http://www.titanshocks.com/index.html

Nothing fancy, they are 40mm inverted monotube coilovers that were customed made to suit the old JIC springs.
Salvaged the JIC Magic SA-1 Pillow ball top mounts, springs (8kg/mm, 6kg/mm combo), brake hoses and roll bar brackets.

So far so good. They are adjustable high low(without affecting the sprign pre load) and spring preload adjustable. Only diff now is that i've the choice to dail in more castor from the top mount and dail in camber from the camber screw at the hubs. But currently using the top mount for camber adjustment.

Only down side is that damping can't be adjusted without dismantling the shocks and reshim the valving. So far so good.


Rear coilover at full downtravel

A valve piston exposed. Check out the shimming. What do u guys think?

A complete rear coilover.

This is the bracket that locks the coilover to the hub. Noticed it's slotted to dial in camber.

U can see you can adjust spring preload and ride height from the bottom by shifting the bracket.

My inverted monotube viewed when it's turned up side down lol......

Stacks and stacks of shims.

Assortment of pistons.

JIC Spring Retainer view from bottom.

JIC Spring Retainer view from top.

JIC Magic Pillowball Mounts view from top.

JIC Magic Pillowball Mounts view from bottom.

What do u guys think of my new coilovers?
It's not bling but it works.

 

[BabyGodzillaGTi-R]

NEW UPDATES :

Recently dropped by the suspension shop as i was wondering why the rear squeaks a bit over speed bumps.
Narrowed it down to the machining of the nylon shim that's in between the spring adjustment ring and the spring.

As i'm using back the JIC springs instead of Titan's spring, the diameter is of the JICs is smaller and its quite a tight fit over the 40mm inverted monotubes.

Easier to check out the pics. Can you see the white nylon shim.

The squeaking issue is trivial as it's barely audible at slow speed.
But i realised something shitty and i wonder if this is the right direction to go about since i'm more or less R&Ding my own shock.
At full down travel the spring is floating even with the spring adjustors adjusted to the top.
Now i'm wondering if i should just take the easy way out and run a bigger nylon block shim to take up the slack, run a helper spring (noticed they have gone out of fad).

Or do the right thing, machine the piston rod for shorter travel (Compared to the JICs the travel is pretty short).

B4 we discovered this around the bends i felt the rear was kinda stuck compared to the previous JICs. The car is neutral but it missed out the tail happy snap feel i like on the old JICs.

U guys think this could all boil down to too long rear suspension stroke and hence i loose out the 3 wheel/ tri podding jacking feel when going round the bends?

 

[BabyGodzillaGTi-R]

NEW UPDATES :

I've sent the car back to the shop to address the issue of the stroke as i really don't like the idea of the springs suspended freely when the coilover is at full down stroke.

Anyone in this forum familiar on the topic of suspension stroke or could point me in the right direction?
Is suspension stroke setup so that all wheels share the same stroke?
I noticed lot's of smoking FF hot hatches when cornering hard, the rear inside wheels lift to promote better turn in. Could the main contributing reason be the rear suspension stroke is much much shorter than the front or more likely a good combination of stiffer rear sway bar, hard rear spring and aggressive damping rates.

 

[warpspeed]

I personally wouldn't limit the travel by shortening the stroke of the piston as the snap-oversteer moment you are describing is when the travel runs out on the inside wheel reducing the load on the loaded outside wheel.
The best option is helper springs as this reduces the load gently and stops the spring hanging loose/rattling about.
I fitted longer dampers in my koni bodies on the rear of my gti, this isn't possible on the pulsar due to the driveshaft.

 

[BabyGodzillaGTi-R]

Thanks for the replies.

But how about machining the stroke and adjusting the ride height so that the front and the back downstroke is the same?
Or a better way is to run softer rear springs as the rear JIC Magic 6kg/mm springs hardly compresses when the car is static on the ground.

Yeah i just realised having a bottom adjustable bracket is kinda pointless on the GTi-R as you can't lower it much as the driveshaft is in the way. Not much can be lowered.

But it's a world of a difference in total stroke length when i compared the Titans to the JIC Magic SA-1s. There's not much suspension stroke on the JICs and it has a massive bumpstop.

Correct me if i'm wrong, i was made to understand why run so much suspension stroke when i don't have the spring to match it.
Does this logic sounds right.

Anyway i was informed that the suspension shop is in the process of shortening the stroke to match the spring.
You guys wanna say anything b4 the "fix" is irreversable?

 

[Trip]

Do you have any pics of the caster adjustable top plates ?

 

[Makaveli_se7en]

Have you considered helper springs?

 

[BabyGodzillaGTi-R]

Do you have any pics of the caster adjustable top plates ?

I'm afraid i don't have any pics of them now.

Basically we are still using the original JIC camber adjustable top mounts (I can post pics of them if requested).

All they did is made a new plate so that i adjust camber only or switch the plate direction 90 degree around to adjust castor only (adjust camber from the bottom hub camber bolts if the pillow ball is in this position).

It's no fancy camber and castor combo top mount.

Unfortunately i can't adjust castor as there's hardly any space in the fender as i'm curring running 215/45 R17 "1/3rd of a slick" Federal RSRs....

Was it you that posted some autocad pics of adjustable top mounts of your own?

 

[BabyGodzillaGTi-R]

Have you considered helper springs?

Nope. Correct me if i'm wrong but helper springs to my understanding is sort of a band aid to take up the slack.
Even if i wanted I would need a pretty tall helper spring to take up the slack. Visual guestimation of 4.5inches.
Anyway I've sent the car back to the shop to shorten the stroke.
Will be collect it today.
Will check out the downstroke travel and keep you guys informed.

 

[Trip]

I'm afraid i don't have any pics of them now.

Basically we are still using the original JIC camber adjustable top mounts (I can post pics of them if requested).

All they did is made a new plate so that i adjust camber only or switch the plate direction 90 degree around to adjust castor only (adjust camber from the bottom hub camber bolts if the pillow ball is in this position).

It's no fancy camber and castor combo top mount.

Unfortunately i can't adjust castor as there's hardly any space in the fender as i'm curring running 215/45 R17 "1/3rd of a slick" Federal RSRs....

Was it you that posted some autocad pics of adjustable top mounts of your own?

Yes thats was me. :-D

Having my topmounts 24mm thick in order to get more adjustability, they raise the car by 24mm. Tein are not independent height adjustable either. Having a very lightweight car combined with a 8kg/mm does not help either. My car barely compresses the main spring on its own weight, It just compresses the helper and a few mm from the main. So basically i need to solve this issue first before i can test them.

 

[Makaveli_se7en]

yes helper springs are designed to keep the spring in contact at full extension with out effecting the overall spring rate. 4" would not be an escessively long length for a helper spring.

 

[BabyGodzillaGTi-R]

The fronts with 8kgmm are fine and i still can slam it down (limited by the size of the tyres).
I would prefer to run 15s but they don't clear the R32 Skyline brakes plus i'm running a close ratio RB gear box.

I guess it's the rears thta hardly have any weight.
To my understanding to match the weight balance of our car to be streetable, if i'm using 8kgmm fronts, the rears should be 4kgmm rears (don't ask me how my "engineer" friend plucked that figure). He concluded JICs came up with 8 and 6 kgmm combo to promote a more "neutral" bias handling car taking to considering of the car weight front and rear balance.

 

[campbellju]

To my understanding to match the weight balance of our car to be streetable, if i'm using 8kgmm fronts, the rears should be 4kgmm rears (don't ask me how my "engineer" friend plucked that figure).

% (Strange forum quirk??)

To not bore people to death over effective spring rates and wheel frequencies I'll keep it simple and talk about the actual rate but it helps to show the point as the ratios are larger.

Nissan designed the car with 3/2 kg/mm springs to give the car some inherent understeer for your Mum to drive which is a 67% ratio front to back

Tein use 4/3 kg/mm to give 75% ratio to give it a more neutral but understeery feel.

I use an 80 % ratio on my road/track car which is quite neutral.

Trip uses an 89% ratio on his stripped out track car

You are proposing a 50% ratio

"Holy understeer Batman" :lol:

The JIC are like the Tein rates and if you've stripped out weight from the rear it would make the effective spring rate stiffer.

If you are understeering then I expect the car is gernerally too low, your rear height is not high enough or your front spring rate is too stiff.

Change your rear ARB first to make it stiffer but if your car is too low it might go from bad understeer to twitchy oversteer which I've had on one setup that didn't stay on the car for long.

Jim

 

[BabyGodzillaGTi-R]

So you are suggesting i should fit the rear ARB to its hardest setting?
Will give it a try but even now it feels stuck and then a slight rear snap instead of an overall progressive neutral to oversteering balance (middle rear ARB setting).
I gather the rear snap will be even worse now... But i don't try i won't know.

Spring rates.
Bingo that's what i thought too. But i don't understand how does softening up the rear helps with giving it more oversteering bias.... I'm at a blur with what my friend has to say.

I'm quite tempted to raise the rear ride height when i'm free.
Jim may i ask what's your current ride height setup on your R?

 

[campbellju]

Going too low causes problems and can give the understeer followed by snap oversteer that you describe. I had to soften my rear bar when I was first setting the car up until I worked this out.

 

[BabyGodzillaGTi-R]

Do you think some of the reasons i can think off with the weird handling issues when one lowers the car is the increase in bumpsteer, lower roll centre and less weight transfer to get the suspension to work?

 

[campbellju]

My own opinion is the bump steer is less of a big deal. The camber compensation has an effect but it is the weight transfer that has the greatest effect.

Roll centres is one way to look at it but it's quite complicated and a bit virtual.

A simpler concept is to remember your control arms also carry a portion of the vehicles weight transfer. Though impossible to do, if your control arms pointed straight down, you can imagine that the springs are made redundant as the control arm carries all the load.

If your control arm points 45degs down you can hopefully see that some weight transfer from one side to the other (transverse) goes through the arm and not the spring.

The other concept to bear in mind is weight is always transfered to the softest side. For example, if you put one leg on concrete and the other on sponge, your weight will always shift to the sponge.

From my testing I've found by raising the front or the rear of our cars you can change the relative stiffness of the chassis in the time you are waiting for the springs and the ARB to react.

So you can use ride heights far more the just the COG height to help change the response of the car.

 

[campbellju]

Spring rates.
Bingo that's what i thought too. But i don't understand how does softening up the rear helps with giving it more oversteering bias.... I'm at a blur with what my friend has to say.

I don't understand what your friend is saying either :?