it's finally running!!!! WOOHOO!

[warpspeed]

:lol:
Finally got my LPG powered SR20DET GTI up and running!
Had it kinda running 2 years ago but other cars and work stopped progress for a bit.
It's got a ported and polished head, i don't need to atomise the fuel as it's injected as a vapour anyway 8)
Crower rods, ACL shells, flat pistons for 10:1 compression ratio, 8 injectors, Dicktator ecu, custom loom, electronic boost control and wideband lambda.
It's quite a bit different working with LPG compared to petrol, for starters LPG's stoichiometric ratio is 15.5:1, have to keep reminding myself that i'm not about to melt a piston!
Still a lot of work to be done with the mapping and the boost control but it's looking good so far
Next step is liquid injection of the LPG for the full -273deg chargecooling effect! but just want to get it back on the road and some miles on it, should be fun! in the current spec i expect 330-350hp and 350-380lb/ft :twisted:
Oh and equivelant to 50+mpg since the LPG is around 50-60p/litre!!!!

 

[PobodY]

:lol:
Next step is liquid injection of the LPG for the full -273deg chargecooling effect!

Absolute zero? I don't think so; it's mainly propane so about the most you'd get is -42 centigrade, it freezes at -187.8 centigrade anyway (so if you got the injectors that cold they'd block)

Not that I'm trying to rain on your parade. - It sounds like a good project and congratulations on getting it going. ;-)

 

[campbellju]

A very interesting project. I often considered this so it good to see someone who has put the time into developing it all.

A few pics of the main changes on the injection and fuel tank would be interesting too.


Jim

 

[warpspeed]

Absolute zero? I don't think so; it's mainly propane so about the most you'd get is -42 centigrade, it freezes at -187.8 centigrade anyway (so if you got the injectors that cold they'd block)

Not that I'm trying to rain on your parade. - It sounds like a good project and congratulations on getting it going. ;-)

Yeah your right, i'm exaggerating about the -273degree effect, but i am hoping for around -100deg in charge temps so im planning not to fit an intercooler. The Australians have been working with liquid injection of LPG for years and had problems with injectors freezing so had to warm them with engine coolant the same way reducers are fed to stop them freezing, our suppliers are selling a new type of injector that gets around the freezing problem and they know what they are doing, they have had BMW V10's running on vapour injection no problem

 

[warpspeed]

A very interesting project. I often considered this so it good to see someone who has put the time into developing it all.

A few pics of the main changes on the injection and fuel tank would be interesting too.


Jim

I'll try and get some pics up but computers aren't really my thing

Last time i had it running it made well over 200hp @ 4000revs on 4psi boost so the signs are promising, had to abort the run due to a misfire which turned out to be a knackered piston,rings and rod, my fault really as i took a chance and didn't rebuild the engine fully before i gassed it :doh:

 

[campbellju]

I'll try and get some pics up but computers aren't really my thing

LPG injection clearly is so we'll let you off ;-)

 

[skiddusmarkus]

I'll be watching this thread, would love to see the results you get on this gas.With such a good chargecooling effect can you do away with an intercooler altogether?Possible route the lpg feed along the turbo>inlet manifold pipe for a cooling effect, maybe even coil it around.

 

[warpspeed]

I'll be watching this thread, would love to see the results you get on this gas.With such a good chargecooling effect can you do away with an intercooler altogether?Possible route the lpg feed along the turbo>inlet manifold pipe for a cooling effect, maybe even coil it around.

yes the intercooler can go but only with the liquid injection, the vapour injection system on the car currently doesn't give any cooling of the intake charge at all, it's converted from liquid to vapour by what's called a reducer that has the engine's coolant pumped through it to warm the liquid and stop the reducer freezing, it's then fed to the injectors as a vapour and the pressure at the injectors is only 1.2bar max. I have tried higher injector pressures but the pressure holds the valve seat shut.
The latest HD injectors have much more powerfull solenoid to allow them to open earlier and therefore flow more gas.
I wouldn't suggest wrapping a pipe with LPG flowing through it to be wrapped around any hot pipe as it would boil the LPG and end up blowing the pipe apart! The Australians found this out the hard way, they tried running the pipes straight to the injectors though single wall pipes.
I'll stop now, i'm a bit of a saddo when it comes to LPG (being fitting systems to everything from VW campers to R5 turbos to 6.8V10 motorhomes for 5 years now):der:

 

[antgtir]

Heard of the R5 conversions people do but never seen or heard of one on an R before. Will most certainly be an interesting thread to watch.

Well done on the progress to date, will wait in anticipation for the next.

Ant.

 

[red reading]

Has'nt one of the btcc car's been running this too (liquid injection lpg i think), very interesting project btw,especially if you can get it all to work reliabley

 

[warpspeed]

Has'nt one of the btcc car's been running this too (liquid injection lpg i think), very interesting project btw,especially if you can get it all to work reliabley

Yeah the focus's (foci?!!! :lol have been using liquid injection, everybody has been complaining that their too fast! so TOCA have restricted their power twice and their still more powerfull.

It work's fine, the R5 has done over 50'000miles and only had one failure blowing the head gasket when the fan belt jumped off and we never noticed whilst running a 14.09@99mph at Santa Pod (common fault with C1J's that do over 7k revs)
It's now running a Garrett GT25 and mapped ignition so i reckon it's making somewhere around 240hp yet it still averages just over 30mpg so that means about 75mpg if you were paying full petrol prices!

 

[red reading]

What's the score with Detonation is it more or less likely? I know the ignition system has to be cock on too otherwise you get missfire's (i have fitted a sequential kit to a jeep cherokee 4.7 v8 with a mate and we had a few teething probs ign related)

 

[warpspeed]

Det is less likely as LPG is about 106ron but takes more to ignite.
Generally ign can be advanced by 10-15degs when running on gas, it's a much slower but more complete burn which is why it's a much much cleaner fuel, petrol is made up of 7 hydrocarbon atoms but gas is only 3 and it atomises much better too.

Also as it's so clean engines don't 'coke up' increasing the chance of det and oil stays cleaner for longer, my father ran a rover 620 for 3 years after converting without an oil/filter change covering nearly 90k miles, when we did service it we could still see through the oil! i couldn't beleive it!

It takes around twice the current to ignite the mixture so yeah gas will find any ign faults, also do not use anything but copper cored plugs as they produce a much fatter spark, gaps should be closed by around a quarter to help and this also advances the spark slightly.
I throw any iridium/platinum plugs in the bin as their not worth the boxes their packed in! I have seen brand new plugs with a 150k garuntee fitted in 8.4 chevy v8's break down after hundred's of miles!
They do give a better spark when they are new but due to the smaller tip and higher voltage needed they seem to give up quicker on LPG, don't know how everybody else feels about them but i wouldn't even use them on a petrol engine!