Ashills dyno results.

Fusion Ed

Fusion Ed

Active Member
That might be giving away some secrets haha ;)
It will depend more on turbo cam set up etc. however you should be able to run more than 8 deg, thats really not much at all, usually I only need to go that low if there is a problem with hot intake temps or high compression. Allen's was more than happy in the 20s.
 
campbellju

campbellju

Moderators
Staff member
Micra Ed said:
That might be giving away some secrets haha ;)
It will depend more on turbo cam set up etc. however you should be able to run more than 8 deg, thats really not much at all, usually I only need to go that low if there is a problem with hot intake temps or high compression. Allen's was more than happy in the 20s.
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Thanks Ed. I've tried to get a very safe base level knock value on boost whilst I sort my fueliing out. My guess is that I am knock limited in the mid range though. My next step was to use my G-tech to add 2 degs at a time across the range and see where I gain. Its got quite a handy RR function built in that's not perfect but neither is a RR :lol:

Just never enough time with work and life to do what you want with these cars.

Cheers,
Jim
 
Fusion Ed

Fusion Ed

Active Member
I have to say don't knock an r/r until you have mapped on one. I have done a few cars recently on and off the dyno and I must admit progress is much faster and more accurate on the dyno, in some cases its essential.

G-tech are good I use one too. I shall let you know more on what allens ignition is doing once I have made sure the base timing collates with the timing on the map.

Ed
 
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Christian & Beccy

Guest
I have mapped cars both on and off the dyno too and have to say that ignition mapping is so much easier and safer on the dyno. Peak power often occurs considerably before Det and with being able to monitor power so accurately, you can advance timing just as far as is needed, rather than the method some use of advancing timing until Det is detected, then back off timing by a set amount.

The ramp rate setting of the Dyno will also control when the car produces full boost and very often when using Shootout mode on a DD Dyno, the car may appear as though is it making full boost slightly later than it does on the road.
 
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Odin

Guest
Christian & Beccy said:
I have mapped cars both on and off the dyno too and have to say that ignition mapping is so much easier and safer on the dyno. Peak power often occurs considerably before Det and with being able to monitor power so accurately, you can advance timing just as far as is needed, rather than the method some use of advancing timing until Det is detected, then back off timing by a set amount.

The ramp rate setting of the Dyno will also control when the car produces full boost and very often when using Shootout mode on a DD Dyno, the car may appear as though is it making full boost slightly later than it does on the road.
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I agree with all that, But in my experience (not mapping) I just drive the bl00dy thing, I've found that the best way to map the car for part throttle and just cruising is to do it on the road, This is how power station got my car so smooth to drive as a daily driver 8) .

Wallace tried to do it all on the dyno and I wasn't happy at all with the results, Yes it was great at full throttle but it was a pig to drive the rest of the time, And he wouldn't have it that it could be done better on the road, It wasn't until I had moaned and moaned about being unhappy with it that he finally got in the bl00dy car and just went for a drive with the laptop plugged in :roll: , Ad after less than 30 mins the car was as good as gold.

You just can't reproduce the real road on a dyno, Not the little humps and bumps that you get, You can really feel the changes in the map through the accelerator pedal as the changes are being made, And give feed back to the mapper as you go.

That's my opinion anyway ;-) .



Rob
 
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ashills

Active Member
well final map has been done on car i wont be going any further boost wise now its holding 1.7-8 bar and is maxing out the q45 it goes like a rocket may just stick back on rollers to get a final figure
now for a trip to the pod :)

and cheers again to ed for all the help with mapping
 
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Christian & Beccy

Guest
Odin,

To some extent I agree with what you say about mapping on the road, we spent 2-years with no Dyno and mapping cars this way.

Forgetting all the peak power readings from the various Dyno's, on the Dyno Dynamics system, we can precisely reach EVERY load site that the car can possibly ever make on the road and we tune EVERY one of those sites. We actually force the car to reach the extreme's, such as high load/low rpm area's too and on reflection feel that we can get an SR20 running the standard AFM or Z32 driving (within reason) as nice as the factory car. Some tuners rely too heavily on the Closed-loop aspect of the PowerFC, which is wrong. We write the entire map according to our own preferred AFR settings (infact we work in Lambda for our own preference), then experiment with the Closed-loop turned on. In some cases, the car runs nicer with it turned off.

I'm intrigued about the Q45 aspect. What do these tend to drive like on the Pulsar? We don't use them. We have usually gone over to a MAP based system by the time a Q45 is needed.
 
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carlengerer

New Member
Christian & Beccy said:
I have mapped cars both on and off the dyno too and have to say that ignition mapping is so much easier and safer on the dyno. Peak power often occurs considerably before Det and with being able to monitor power so accurately, you can advance timing just as far as is needed, rather than the method some use of advancing timing until Det is detected, then back off timing by a set amount.

The ramp rate setting of the Dyno will also control when the car produces full boost and very often when using Shootout mode on a DD Dyno, the car may appear as though is it making full boost slightly later than it does on the road.
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Good info...you learn something new everyday:), found a link on ignition timing others might find interesting.

http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_1609/article.html
 
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ashills

Active Member
q45 is fine idles lovely at 900-1000 rpm and drives very responsive some of that is due to turbo
where hitting 5.04 volts at around 6000rpm so really we could do with something a little bigger but the whole idea of this car was using our software we have to live map the standard ecu and see what limits if any we found so far all is very good its running 800s at 4 bar pressure and the q45 we are looking at converting to map and temp sensor but thats still a little while away
 
Fusion Ed

Fusion Ed

Active Member
Cool someone knows what they are doing.
Christian & Beccy, entirely agree with your comments on tuning. Also my experience with the Q45 is that it is geat on the pulsar and to be completely honest I am very surprised.
It maintains the tractability of a stock pulsar and idles perfectly. It doesn't hiccup or hesitate. AFRs are stable, no problems with closed loop control or dying on overrun. My only criticism is it 'maxes' out much earlier than I had hoped. I am not quite so sure of Allens boost levels, since he swapped boost gauges, and the new one seems to read more, however airflow rates are similar. I keep telling him he cannot have any more unless he/we sort something out with the AFM so that it can accurately read at these airflow rates.
I am contemplating using a map sensor fed into the stock ecu with air temperature compensation. I suddenly have a long list of mini projects like this now :) Must deal with them one at a time or nothing will ever get finished.

Ed

Kieron im interested in your method :p does it work on one of those blue nissan van things like allen has lolol..
 
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Christian & Beccy

Guest
Again, regarding the Q45, how is the throttle response? Is it snappy?

Our experience is that it tends to be kind of an 'all or nothing' feeling.:lol:
 
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ashills

Active Member
no not atall very progressive when i used the z32 with smaller exhaust housing 3071 it was horrid and surged like a bitch at tap of throttle now its very smooth at angle type of throttle
 
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Odin

Guest
This is a very interesting thread so please keep it on topic everyone.




Rob
 
PaulB

PaulB

Member
im running a Q45 on my setup too, having got 387bhp at 1.4bar, using original elbow too.

It drives pretty smoothly and pulls the power great. Not so sure it should be maxing out when running "just" 417bhp mind. Thought they be good for 500bhp+easy, considering just how much air these things flow when there in a V8.
 
Fusion Ed

Fusion Ed

Active Member
But a 2.0 with a pressure ratio of 2.6+ makes it an equivalent of 5.2 litres... larger than the engine it came from.
 
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ashills

Active Member
and they are from a NA engine where as the z32 is turbo'd and maxes at similar place

you culd go further as the pipe its self isnt a restriction but the sensor had reached its 5 volt max output
like the standard maf will reach 5 volt at 330ish bhp but people still go further but mapping becomes fudged
 
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