Nistune - where to buy from

[olliecast]

To tune my timing map I bought a impared hearing kit from maplins. Soldered it up and connected the two microphone to two long lengths of microphone wire then soldered them to a bolt and a clip.

Mounted them in an appropriate place, got a passenger who knew what det was then went from there!

 

[shroom]

150 quid is a very reasonable price to not blow your engine up lol

 

[Fusion Ed]

If there is still an interest I have these in stock now.

 

[campbellju]

Mounted them in an appropriate place, got a passenger who knew what det was then went from there!

BANG!!.... That was your det :lol: Only joking ;-)

Joking aside, your knock sensor has been tuned by Nissan to detect engine knock. Watching your knock level and understanding what is normal and what is not is a pretty good place to start (Or to continue for Ollie when his mate is not around).

Abnormal knock is spikey on the trace where the level doubles for an instant. If you see this, reduce your ignition in that area.

I don't know about the Nistune but on the PFC you can tell the ECU to flash the knock warning light above a certain threshold. You can set this threhold lower whilst tuning to see any small warning spikes. If you see them you back off and modify your IGN.

Knock level is not perfect either as differentiating what is normal can sometimes end up with a conservative map.


On our cars I have seen areas when coming on boost and at peak torque can be det limited, peak hp not yet. In the past and in the US where they use lower quality fuels this would have been the case but nowadays with optimax on every corner I think less so.

I believe a RR is the only place to safely and accurately set your peak hp IGN.

To hire a RR for an hour is often less than £100.

Simplistically. Do a run and set a benchmark. Add 2 degs across the high load area and repeat. If peak hp and torque goes up then you know from 5K to 7K you need the increase.

If peak torque stays the same then only keep the increase from 5.5K to 7K.

Add 2 degs to the area that went up and repeat the run. If it stays the same then then go back to your last setting.

Check your knock level whilst doing this for any spikes.

After you've had your hour you can smooth any lumps in the map.

@Steve, TDI North near Warrington are GTIROC friendly.

I say simplistically because if you are self mapping then before you go near a RR you need to know your fuelling and knock are all good. Before you start you need to check your base timing is the same in the ECU as on your engine with a timing light. To maximse your time, you need to be profficient at modifying your map on the fly whilst people are watching you.

If you are not sure then that's where people like Ed help out.

 

[steve963]

I take it he meant knock rather than det!

think that makes sense Campbell, can only really induce knock up to peak torque after that excess timing just reduces power?

 

[Fusion Ed]

You can have knock at any point where its possible for combustion pressures to exceed a level that causes fuel to spontaneously ignite.

 

[campbellju]

can only really induce knock up to peak torque after that excess timing just reduces power?

Sort of, for any point in the load/rev range there is point called MBT which is the minimum advance needed for best torque. This is because the piston is acting like a lever om the crank and just like in real life you can make life easier or harder depending on where you push the same lever.

For any given afr, charge temp and pressure there is an optimum time to fire the spark plug. If you are knock limited it essentially means you can't run enough ignition advance to get the optimum leverage on the crank.

If you are not knock limted and hit the MBT sweet spot then running any more advance will not give you any more torque. Adding further advance will actually see torque drop off again. As HP is a function of torque, on the RR you are attempting to find the points of MBT across the whole map. This is why once you see the same peak hp you back off your ignition again as the previous advance was the minimum you needed.

What I'm saying is at peak hp the gtirs I've seen have not been knock limited except when coming on boost and around peak torque. You could take the same cars on a really hot day or with cheap petrol and they might be knock limited again. This is why you go for MBT so you have a little head room around the sweet spot.

Going back to my earlier point, det cans and knock level can be used to tune ignition but will only be fully effective on a knock limited car. If you are not knock limted then you need experience from a similar car and luck or a RR to optimise your ignition map.

Cheers,
Jim

 

[Fusion Ed]

There are some tricks you can do to help find optimum timing/fuel efficiency on a non knock limited car but its limited. What you have said there has been put across very well, and is why its pointless to fine tune for power on the road, and why it can take so much longer than on a dyno.

 

[campbellju]

There are some tricks you can do to help find optimum timing/fuel efficiency on a non knock limited car but its limited.

I agree with that too Ed

 

[shroom]

I just tried to understand that, just think I have fried my head hehe, nicely put across though it does tell me its not as simple as you can first think, thanks for the posts campbellju and Ed I have been very interested in the tuning and the timing side of things that i was not so aware of, and you have made alot of sence and made it alot clearer

 

[PobodY]

I just tried to understand that, just think I have fried my head hehe

I just nod and pretend that I've understood most of the time.

 

[steve963]

thanks to Ed and Campbell too,

do I get a cash payout when i blow my engine up at weekend?

 

[campbellju]

I'm afraid not.

The best place to start is your idle. If you mess that up the engine just stalls or splutters.

Move from their to cruise, then try low load mapping. Mid range mapping and finally WOT.

Double check everything and make sure all your changes are small. The biggest issue is human error where you meant to enter 11.0 say and enter 110.

Always check the changes you make before you download them.

 

[Fusion Ed]

Also as soon as you have anything of a remotely working base map, save it in case you screw up and have to start again (its easy to overwrite by accident so two copies are best, one outside your working directory). Also describe your file names well so that when you look back you know what each one did.

 

[steve963]

thanks,

hopefully ill see some good gains
timing map on my car at 1.2 bar would just slam into the full load column as soon as boost came on, using the full load timing values, when perhaps i could run more advance

 

[stumo]

Just as Jim and Ed have said.....

Take your time, double check everything you're doing.

As you move from mapping idle to higher loads and revs, whatever you've done lower down will have an impact on stuff higher up.

Aslong as the ign timing isn't causing problems, map the fueling first then do the timing (you might have to then go back and trim the fuel a bit).

Lastly setup the accelerator pump (or whatever it's called) as this will have a big effect on AFR's and will cause you problems.